22 years old. Describing the round, South African police ballistics expert Captain Christian Mangena explained: It hits the target, it opens up, it creates six talons, and these talons are sharp. Winchester Black Talon bullets were released by Winchester and debuted at SHOT Show in 1991. Unlike the Black Talon, for whichnegative media attention caused the discontinuation of the line, G2s R.I.P. Due to all of the controversy, the Black Talon has now become a notorious legend of almost mythical proportions. The federal ban on armor-piercing pistol ammunition uses only the composition of the bullet's core to determine legality. The Black Talon is a hollowpoint bullet designed to bend upon impact into six ninety-degree angle razor-sharp petals or "talons" that increase the wounding power of the bullet by stretching, cutting and tearing tissue and bone as it travels through the victim. Winchester Ammunition 250 Grain Jacketed Hollow-Point (JHP) Ammo Details. Platt also served with the the Rangers in Nam where he gained his combat experience. This coating is still widely used on many of Winchester's rifle bullets today.[4]. The Winchester Black Talon was the answer for a more effective hollow point duty round demanded by the FBI following the 1986 Miami, FL shootout. This page is not available in other languages. The alleged armor-piercing (AP) notion is urban legend, and was a result of media hyperbole (perhaps confusing "Talon" with the "Teflon" that coated KTW AP bullets[citation needed])rather than test or field data from actual shootings considering the short time it was on the market. Black Talon rounds were known for the unique construction of the bullet and its sharp petal shape after expansion following impact with tissue or other wet media. Two of the agents had backup revolvers (Hanlon and Risner) and both would use them at some point during the fight. That soon led to a popular assumption that the rounds were armor-piercing and presented a threat to police. The bullet penetrated Platts chest and bruised the spinal cord, ending the gunfight. The black appearance was due to the oxidized copper jacket. ActionHub // To keep it fair, we havent included anything too out of the ordinary, and everything listed below can be found for commercial sale. Unfortunately, Winchester stopped producing Black Talon ammunition in 2000, which only fed into its mystique. Weve already featured a few hollow point rounds on this list, but in a general sense, all hollow point ammo is controversial. The 10mms travel at 1600fps with 767fp of muzzle energy, the .357 Sigs travel at 1550fps at 614fps muzzel energy. "Cleverness and luck", Evan Thomas and Russell Watson. To the comment that the Black Talon did not fail you would be incorrect. I am in no way an expert, but I think the black talon 180 gr load in 357 is hunting ammunition. Heres why. What type of bullet if that? I need a bunch of those!! Dont use PDX-1 .45ACP in a short barrel! Additionally, some recommend the Federal HST as a great modern-day equivalent to the Black Talon. For collecting, it might be alright. Buy WINCHESTER BLACK TALON 9MM 147GR SXT AMMO 2 FULL BOXES (40 ROUNDS) : GunBroker is the largest seller of Pistol Ammunition Ammunition All: 984252181. Religious experts also commented that many of the claims that Jihawg made were false and that it is not a transgression if a Muslim isforced to eat or touch pork. Stay Tuned to the RE Factor Tactical Blog and be part of this all VETERAN-run website. The claims against Olin were dismissed because it was held that the plaintiff could not prevail because there were no defects in manufacturing, design, or in warnings the bullets "functioned exactly as designed".[11]. At the time, Winchesters Black Talon was one of, if not the most effective hollow point duty round you could buy. This ammo has not been manufactured for many years. Wish I could write this well! Minor injuries from shotgun pellets. Your ammo is approx. The Black Talons petals look more like well talons, essentially making the wound channel even wider. William Matix: Smith & Wesson Model 3000 12-gauge shotgun, one round #6 shot fired. A fictionalized version of the Black Talon bullet called the "Black Death" is utilized by Hank Schrader to kill Marco Salamanca in the Breaking Bad episode "One Minute". Mostly because they are 25 years old and other companies are reproducing them under different name for as low as $18. @ CTD Suzanne: As a Federal LEA I know quite well the 1986 Miami scenario and its ramifications towards the major changes it brought in all law enforcement and the overall industry at a National perspective. Hollow Point Ammo. Think a little bit harder/smarter. We have to portray an image of conscientious awareness to go along with our situational awareness. Black Talon is a type of ammunition that was introduced by Winchester Ammunition in 1991 primarily for law enforcement and self-defense. I met Mr. Mireles after his recovery. Wonderful !!! This is simply a brilliant piece of work. Black Talon 9mm Caliber Ammunition for sale. Also, the photo of the mushroomed bullet with 2 layers of petals is totally radical and cool and wicked!! 4-6 diameter wound cavity about 10 long. Below is our list of the top most controversial brands or types of handgun rounds. A jury of your peers, and not a knowledgeable jury with respect to ammunition, will hear those words He loaded those Cop Killer Bullets into his gun and just waited for the chance to use them. Your claim of Self-Defense now becomes premeditated murder! For the prestige of having and carrying the bullets that rip apart the insides after passing through a bulletproof vest instead you have become the evil gun owner. The 147 "SXT" bullet in the Premium/Supreme 9mm load was NOT the same as the old Black Talon, and did NOT have the "talons" that the Black Talon and Ranger T bullets have. [8][25], Toxicology tests showed that the abilities of Platt and Matix to fight through multiple traumatic gunshot wounds and continue to battle and attempt to escape were not achieved through any chemical means. Yes, all of this may be classified but they are still out there being used by those who wear no uniforms and those who blend into populations overseas working #### # ##########. Platt then entered the Grogan/Dove car in an apparent attempt to flee the scene. The ultimate demise of this round was the LE community nicknaming it Black Felon ammo. I remember when we moved from 38 to 9mm then 40 caliber everything revolved around this in round choice then the old group so wrapped up in collateral damage from over penetration that we always wound up with under powered ammo such as the Black Talon later renamed Ranger I guess. Right after the "Banning" of Winchester Black Talons-the developer of that bullet changed companies to "Remington". What sets Black Talon bullets apart is their six sharp talons" designed to unsheathe once inside the victims body, thus tearing the wound channel to pieces. If you dont think hollow points are controversial, just talk to someone who doesnt know what they are. For 9mm or .45 ACP, try Hornady Critical Duty. Having been in several shootings the defender should expect more than zero penetration on a K5 40 caliber hit. A surgeon in Houston said Black Talon rounds "explode inside a person like a thousand razor blades.". I even had one work OK from a 2.5 bbl. The CorBon DPX is too hot (in my opinion) for self defense in a small home where if you shoot thru wall A, you hit your son, and if you shoot thru wall B, well theres you daughter. Following the United States Army's selection of the SIG Sauer P320-derived M17 pistol in the Modular Handgun System competition, the Army announced two new 9mm rounds would be adopted alongside the gun, the M1152 Ball, an 115 grain full metal jacket round "for use against enemy personnel, for training, and for force protection", and the M1153 Special Purpose, a 147 grain jacketed hollow point round "for use in situations where limited over-penetration of targets is necessary to reduce collateral damage." No, Black Talon rounds are not armor piercing. All Rights Reserved. Range Report: How Good Is the Smith and Wesson M&P FPC 9mm Folding Carbine? Throwback Thursday: 5 Long-Slide Pistols I Can't Live Without, Full Feature: Anderson Manufacturing Kiger 9C Pro 9mm, The History Fixed and Adjustable Iron Sights, Throwback Thursday: All About Bullet Grain, Rifle Hack: Sighting for 100 Yards at a Distance of 25 Yards. [7][8][9] Some medical personnel were concerned that the sharp barb-like tips could potentially cause tears in the surgical gloves and hands of the medical workers, exposing them to greater risk of infection,[2] however there are no documented reports of this actually happening. +p+ was definitly the right direction. In the shootout, the eight FBI agents were mainly armed with Smith & Wesson Military and Police .357 Magnum revolvers shooting .38 Special +P ammunition. My love of sharp things extends to all kinds of edged weapons, be they small, large or on a stick. The shots were believed to have been fired by Dove. Grogan and Dove were kneeling alongside the drivers side of their car. Billing its rounds as peace through pork, Jihawg gained media scrutiny for a very noveland some would say absurdaddition to what seem to be perfectly standard 9mm rounds. Israels Cutting-Edge Missile Warning System to Be Deployed in Ukraine This May, US Special Forces Evacuate Embassy Staff in Sudan: Other Americans Left Behind, Again, Navy SEALs David Goggins versus Dan Crenshaw in SEAL on SEAL Internet Death Match, SOFREP Stands With Our Brothers Who Demand Responsibility for Disastrous Afghan Departure, Adam Brown: A SEALs Life of Courage and Redemption, Complete List: Ticonderoga-class Missile Cruisers To Retire By 2027, Nuclear Close Calls That Nearly Caused World War III, Russian Sausage Millionaire and Putin Critic Falls to His Death in India. The gun community is all too familiar with the lies and language of fear from the media and anti-gun politicians. Black Talon is incredibly ammo efficient. The fourth hit Matix in the face next to his right eye socket, travelled downward through the facial bones, into the neck, where it entered the spinal column and severed the spinal cord. Black Talon is a brand of hollow point pistol and rifle ammunition introduced in 1991 by Winchester, primarily intended for law enforcement and personal defense use. Critics alleged the ammunition caused unnecessary physical damage. We were operating a Advanced Combat Survival course (TAMU). I'm the knife nut that everybody is ashamed to know. Elevation Talon 44 Bow Case Black 44 In. THANK YOU FOR SUPPORTING VETERAN JOURNALISM - JOIN SOFREP+ I absolutely love this ammunition. The Black Talon exotic sword is still a beast in Destiny 2. "[N]o injuries have been reported to medical professionals removing the bullets" in "Police use new brand of bullets Surgeon says removal may endanger doctors" by Dan R. Barber. Therefore, they are certainly NOT the same exact thing. Winchester repackaged and renamed the round throughout the years. Here is a standard block with a 44 Magnum Winchester Black Talon displayed next to an expanded bullet shot through ballistics gel Share 0 Share on Facebook +1 +1 on Google Plus Latest News With robust designs and vintage classic style, discover the heritage of military timepieces today! I believe that strong 10mm ammo (not the watered down stuff) can solve this problem. They are just arguably the most aggressive and most lethal hollow point round ever designed due to the sharp petals that expand when it makes contact with flesh. Wow thats really intelligent for FBI agents to have 38 specials inside 357 revolvers, huh? After that shooting I never took anything for granted again. Although not available anymore, you can get comparable performance, if not better, out of the above alternatives. The Hornady TAP isnt a bad round either but I still lean towards Federal ammunition, the Hydra-Shock Deep is a good round as well. They are just arguably the most aggressive and most lethal hollow point round ever designed due to the sharp petals that expand when it makes. While standing in the courtroom trying to plead Self-Defense when a sharp anti-gun D.A. Physician Boyd Stevens, the San Francisco Medical Examiner who performed the autopsies, later reported at the 1994 International Wound Ballistics Association's conference in Sacramento that the wound trauma caused by Black Talons was unremarkable and that all victims died due to penetration of a vital structure.[6]. Im a proponent of all munitions that are topped wth Barns bullets. Killed after being shot 12 times. Introduced officially in 1991, this hollow point round is especially famous for its unique-looking projectile. This creates a wider wound channel. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt! The initial collision that forced the suspects off the road caused some unforeseen problems for the agents, as the FBI vehicles sustained damage from the heavier, older car driven by Matix. Today, Black Talon bullets are no longer manufactured or sold by Winchester, but similar types of hollow-point bullets are still widely available and legal for civilian use in the United States. The lawsuit, however, was dismissed. AllOutdoor // People shoot poorly under stress. Killed after being shot six times. I am currently waiting on the 40 S&W round to come out. *Editors note: The source has chosen to remain anonymousdue to the sensitive nature of their work. Thankfully, the Tireless Blade trait makes powered sword kills grant you sword ammo. In 1993, the Black Talon bullet gained notoriety after it was used by a gunman in a mass shooting in a California law office. [16], Doves 9 mm pistol was rendered inoperative after being hit by one of Platts bullets. I listened to a career paramedic say If someone must be shot, shoot them a lot, because the human body can endure a great deal of damage and remain in the fight You sir, have experienced that first hand! They dont really contribute very much to tissue damage. Matix was apparently knocked unconscious by the hits and fired no more rounds. How many times have you heard about the last round youll ever need? Or how about guaranteed stopping power? Its a given that ammunition manufacturers want to make the best, most efficient product possibleand that basically means that the more lethal the round, the better it is. which includes rounds from both semi-autos & wheel guns. I chose my Rangers because theyre on the FBI approved list, and they were the cheapest. He thought our use of Ranger Everytime a Good Guy with a Gun does the right thing, the media never mentions it. Its specially designed hollow point wont plug while passing through a variety of barriers, and the bullet jacket and core hold together to provide nearly 100 percent weight retention through even the toughest materials. Your email address will not be published. They have taken your home, your job, your savings, your family, and even your friends from you. But affecting vital structure is what causes an interruption in aggression. Most of the rounds below can be found in multiple calibers, including the ever-popular 9x19mm and .45 ACP. Thus If you have among the last boxes manufactured. SIG V-Crown. In 2007 Winchester updated their Ranger SXT line and renamed it Ranger T-Series. Even now, people still claim Black Talon was the best defensive round and search for its modern day equivalent. Black Talon bullets are a brand of hollow-point bullets that were designed and marketed by Winchester in the 1990s. For ammo to pass FBI protocol, it must meet a minimum of 12 inches of penetration in ballistics gelatin, but no more than 18 inches and penetrate clothing including heavy jackets, denim and leather. Ideally both! This round is an excellent choice for self-defense or home defense. When a hollow point bullet hits a soft target, it mushrooms out to what looks like a flower with petals. Check out ourDAILY DEALS pagefor industry deals and discounts. Suspects[edit] In fact, for the first two years, Black Talon was on the market it received an award from Shooting Industry magazine for its effective lethality. Terminal ballistics testing of hollow point bullets is generally performed in ballistic gelatin, or some other medium intended to simulate tissue and cause a hollow point bullet to expand. The bullet, fired by Risner or Orrantia, penetrated Platts right forearm, fractured the radius bone and exited the forearm. While its black color and petal-like constructiongave it a very distinctive look, the rounds performance was roughly on par with other hollow points. Black Talon Ballistic Gel Test ** 45 ACP & 10mm ** The Wound Channel 58.4K subscribers Subscribe 246K views 8 years ago I was fortunate enough to have a viewer send me some Black Talon. I had the chance to see countless 1,000s of spent rounds in all calibers & brands carried by LEOs. John Hall, FBI Firearms Training Unit Director at the time called the tragedy an ammo failure. The aftermath encouraged the FBI to seek new guns, more effective ammunition and set precedence for the FBIs protocol on ammunition evaluation and testing. Be sure to follow us onFacebook,Instagram, andLinkedInfor exclusive content and deals. [9], Manauzzi was wounded when Platt fired several rounds from his Ruger Mini-14 rifle that penetrated the door of Manauzzis car. Some say that SXT stands for the same exact thing. If you are desperate to get your hands on the original Black Talon, you can find it online, but at a jacked up price. Ive seen enough well-practiced shooters fail in a simulator to validate this (at least for me). I packed up my gear and left. boxes. I was honored to meet him 4 more times. Seven months later, Gian Luigi Ferri loaded his gun with Black Talon ammunition and walked into a law office in San Francisco, California, killing nine people. However, after medical examiners performed autopsies on the bank robbers bodies, it was discovered that one bullet stopped just less than an inch from the heart. I have personally used Black Talon ammo in a 40 Cal Glock and can tell you first hand that it lacks important penetration on impact. Mireles drew his .357 Magnum revolver, moved parallel to the street and then directly toward Platt and Matix. In addition, some recommend the Federal HST. It does excellent damage and comes with the Crow's Wings perk that launches a Heavy Attack projectile at enemies. Hornady Critical Duty, with FlexLock technology, delivers "barrier blind" performance when shot through common urban barriers. Anything that we do that appears to be overboard just gives the antis one more bullet to use against US! When he was hand cuffed and moved a second weapon had been in his good hand. 20 SUPREME CENTERFIRE PISTOL-REVOLVER CARTRIDGES in each box.All boxes are in excellent shape nearly factory fresh . "[19][20] Both the round and the firearm have subsequently been adopted by all branches of the United States Armed Forces, except for the Coast Guard. [14] The Black Talon bullet is referenced in The Mountain Goats album Bleed Out, in the track "First Blood".[21]. [12] The car had come to a stop against a parked vehicle, and Platt had to climb across the hood of this vehicle, an Oldsmobile Cutlass. Winchester pulled it in 1993 and permanently discontinued the ammo in 2000. [8] Platt then pulled back from the window, giving Matix opportunity to fire. Gun #: 963524304 Seller: GunFactory ( FFL) $219.99 Full Details 1 Image (s) Radian Talon Safety Selector - 4-lever Black For Ar15 Gun #: 969752348 Seller: GunFactory ( FFL) $93.49 Full Details I carry a descendant of the Black Talon, Q4364. It was captained by Revinal Orzik. They make them in many different calibers and seeing what they do in a block of gel is amazing. 357 black talon ammo for sale and auction. Quite a few years ago, an IDPA shooter handed me a shiny silver cartridge with a black bullet and said, Dont lose this. No, Black Talon rounds are not armor piercing. Seriously injured by .223 gunshot wounds to the right hand and groin. Mireles was hit in the left forearm, creating a severe wound. The wound was not serious. The real truth is that you will be in-famous. Your discussions, feedback and comments are welcome here as long as they are relevant and insightful. The result is extremely uniform expansion, better separation of the petals, and more consistent penetration across barrier types through full-size handguns. The publicity around the shooting led to some jurisdictions restricting the use of Black Talon bullets, but they were not banned outright. Buy a 357 black talon ammo online. The Critical Duty FlexLock bullet incorporates two revolutionary Hornady features to deliver superior barrier penetration and consistent performance. Even the old snub nosed 38 with plus P ammo would shoot through a persons torso at close range. Talon Defense | Laatuasunnot-The black talon round ddi not fail what failed was you used a handgun and the average human can take many hand gun rounds before stopping. The resulting cartridge, the Black Talon bullet offers a low-velocity missile that retains its weight, penetrates even when interrupted by intervening objects, and remains capable of expansion in soft tissue. Are Black Talon Bullets armor-piercing? This is original 44 Mag Winchester Black Talon 250gr. Effective self-defense requires ammunition that provides consistent expansion, optimum penetration, and superior terminal performance. When a hollow point bullet hits a soft target, it expands to what looks like a flower with petals. [21] However, it is known for certain that Platt pulled Matixs Dan Wesson revolver at some point and fired three rounds. But try a self-defense plea with cop killer bullets. A 4 Sig and a 4.5 S&W both worked well. In the end, Winchester decided to discontinue the pistol caliber line in 1993, and the entire line completely in 2000. It just makes one realize when your shift began you never knew what may happen. It uses up a lot of ammo, though, so you shouldn't waste the projectiles on frivolous things. [13], Platt took up position by the passenger side front fender of the Cutlass. One round hit McNeill in the neck, causing him to collapse and leaving him paralyzed for several hours. On expansion, the bullets unsheathed sharp talon claws that looked like a buzz saw. Problem here is that in the LE business the females cannot qualify with the 10MM I would think. The Black Talon was a "HollowPoint" and expanded upon impacts. Put it head to head with the Federal HST 124 grain in ballistic gel and against a Kevlar bulletproof panel!. By admin | January 9, 2023 | 32. He was incredibly informative. Speer Gold Dot and Hornady Critical Duty also offer superb terminal ballistics in all calibers theyre available in. Yes. What type of background did they have that allowed them to use their weapons with such evil proficiency? By the time I moved back to the States and started shooting again, new stories and legends long surpassed talk of the Black Talon. Wal-Marts in my area stock PDX-1 all the time. Introduced at the 1991 SHOT Show, Winchesters Black Talon was the ammo companys answer for a more effective self-defense bullet demanded by the FBI following the 1986 Miami Firefight. However, sometimes the public or national media sees it as too lethal, and thats where the controversy starts.
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