I have a 723 build (w/ C7 upper) and a 727 build (A2 upper) that use 14.5" Colt M4 barrels. Reliability is the main concern for me when I re-barrel this rifle. The first reason is that they are, indeed, better. AR9 - Help diagnosing feeding issue. The magazine lips cannot move, so with these larger diameter cartridges, the bullet tips down lower about the centerline of the bore (half of the diameter increase to be exact). are all barrels w/ m4 feed ramps?? This includes M4 feed ramps, barrel nut, front sight tower and sight post, and -28 threads for a muzzle device. As a result, the factory machined M4 feed ramps on the receiver are hard coat anodized which adds significant strength to the aluminum. Remember less is more, little by little. It's an interesting question. Proper maintenance and lubrication. So, what is the difference between M4 feed ramps and regular ones? It's best to use rifle/rifle combo or M4/M4. I replaced the M4 feed ramp barrel with a monolithic feed ramp barrel and no more problems. Having been in military supply, I know that what the mil-spec means: it gets the minimum job done for thousands (millions) of parts/systems. Sent back again. It's best to have M4 ramps on both the upper and barrel. Again, youll find plenty of videos on spooling up hand grinders to remedy feed ramp and ejection port issues with these larger cartridges, but I strongly suggest going factory-done aftermarket. Hasn't misfed yet, through initial break in up through 1k rounds, and that's mag length ammo. Thats why AR10s- And Scar heavies exist for. Can I use a barrel with M4 feed ramps with an upper that isnt M4 matched? Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. 308 m5 using m4 feed ramps, which I belive are for the smaller round like. By my estimates, the tip of the bullet first hits the barrel extension about 1/3 of the way up the respective feed ramp on the barrel extension. Go slow and you'll be done in no time. You absolutely do not want it the other way around however. JavaScript is disabled. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. Id just get one for that barrel and find a barrel with m4 extension for the upper you already have. Everything that you have on your side to make any weapons more reliable and work when it absolutely needs to is a plus. Watch a video about our Modern Series AR barrel: Im an old vet, now retired and looking to build some ARs as a hobby to keep me doing something that I will enjoy. 3. However, an M4 barrel extension is dished more so the feed ramps could extend downward, and then an area within the upper is shaped to match. I had seen these pix years ago and dismissed the idea of mix and match. So I called. M4 extension with .350 M4 style feed ramps 11 Degree Target Crown Threaded Muzzle 5/8"x24 TPI Weight: 26.5 ounces Given that most of us dont always have perfect access to truly genuine Mil-Spec, mil-standard parts (those actually used in issued fighting tools), were shopping based on a little part trust and a bigger part knowledge. I'd get jams from bullets hitting the back of the upper so I took a small round file and made the M4 ramps in the upper. M4 feed ramps. 's blog. Now move move the on deck cartridge forward to the 3/8 of inch position and again note the position of the tip of the bullet in relationship to the barrel extension. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. I'd rather just pay the gunsmith to make it work than hunt down another barrel/upper if possible. This 20" BCM barrel is machined from SS410 stainless steel. It's near impossible to replace the carry handle upper I have these days, and finding a colt chrome lined 20" light weight barrel isn't a walk in the park either. Your previous content has been restored. All this basically means is that the ramps continue from the barrel extension down through the upper receiver tonthe magazine. With a larger diameter case body sitting down in the magazine, the tip of the bullet sits lower in relation to the chamber/bore centerline than with a .223-size round. Either way is good and both types work great with semi auto only guns. This is one time it's better to go a little too far than to leave an edge for the . First of Im not a gunsmith or firearms professional. The best case is to have both an upper and barrel that have the feed ramps. If your upper isn't showing signs of bullets rubbing on the aluminum under the barrel extension, you should be good with M4 ramps. Inadequate knowledge about these feed ramps can lead to lots of problems with barrels because they are essential parts to guide the bullet up and into the chamber. Not all mil-spec features advertised on the product information are the real mil-specs. The manufacturer said they had sold hundreds of barrels with out problems reported. The ramp angles are different and changing the profile of the extension doesn't make it something it isn't. ago Costs about $40-50 to have the feed ramps reprofiled from what I can gather. Seems like it should work to me, but be a real challenge to keep clean and be damned ugly to boot. Its a miracle! Ideally both. These units actually feature the NON-F-Marked (correct) front sight base. I bought a .458 upper to go with it, with the extra internal clearance cut before anodizing. Go back to writing school. Feeds flawlessly. Absolutely nothing to do with casing diameter, or whatever other weird sht you guys imagine. If you have a bolt that you would like to use you are welcome to ship it to us for accurate headspace. A4 Complete Upper Receiver. These Mil-Spec M4 feed ramps are part of the original CNC manufacturing process. $101.95. I have looked and looked and looked. Being a Newbie AR owner ((Ive been an avid gun owner for nearly 50 years), I appreciate the information and visual aids that Im sure will be a big help in enjoying and using this gun platform. For use by barrel manufacturers. This is a big tip, by the way, for pistol-caliber ARs. The reason I decided to write about this topic at all was because there are some mil-spec features advertised on aftermarket parts that arent even really mil-spec. Thanks! You can put a M4 barrel and non-M4 receiver together, but you can't mismatch them the other way. The closest brand new barrel you are likely to find is the Windham Weaponry 20 inch 1/7 twist chrome lined barrel. Avoid Polishing Too Lightly Or Too Roughly I can assure you that most mods that deviate from the original design aren't 100% reliable. Personally, I would sell the rifle upper and buy an M4 upper - the cost will be small and you will end up with a more satisfactory end product. Edited April 27, 2014 by Mark Gale Factory said its fine . It has 2 ramps cut into the receiver to help the rounds feed into the chamber. Thank you for answering the question do well. UPPER RECEIVER: AR-15 Mil-Spec Machined out of 7075-T6 Forged Aluminum, M4 Feed Ramps, Cerakoted Magpul Flat Dark Earth (FDE) Color with Forward Assist and Ejection Port Cover Installed BARREL: 22 inch, 223 Wylde Caliber, 4150 CMV, 1:7 Twist, Heavy Bull Barrel Profile, Straight Fluted, Melonite/Nitride Finish - made for us by Tactical Kinetics HAND The rifle receiver, doesn't have ramps on the receiver, they are only cut into the barrel. Only took a few minutes. That's an important thing since without the feed ramps, issues can arise when receivers and barrel extensions are mismatched. I recently picked up a barrel that I thought had M4 feed ramps, but it doesn't line up with my M4 feed ramp upper. Description. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. One new winner* is announced every week! Contents: 1 Diamond Burr (For Colt 2 Stage Ramps) 1 Cut Lube (For Diamond Burr) 1 Bullet Stone (For Reshaping . It's not worth changing the barrel extension on an already finished barrel, getting the new barrel extension to line up correctly with the gas port will probably cost more in gunsmithing/machining fees than buying a new barrel. The upper I want to rebarrel is modified for Service Rifle competition so it's not quite as cheap as buying another $89 upper from Aero. Use this M4 Barrel extention with M4 feedramps. 2. I was planning on using a Daniel Defense 14.5 pencil barrel, because like the C8 they are CHF, lightweight profile, and .750 at the FSB (And also because quality carbine pencil barrels with .625 gas blocks seem to be in short supplyor else I'd just build a 723 clone.) . The extension is the part at the end of the barrel that fits inside the upper. 2. so im thinking I might as well just get the unramp upper. Would not feed to save its life! I just need a little guidance on this and I'm having trouble getting good results from Google. Buy AR 15 16" .350 Legend Nitride M4 Profile Barrel 1:16: GunBroker is the largest seller of AR15 Parts Gun Parts All: 974000728 . I'll probably build a pistol out of this one. You cannot paste images directly. One of the AR15 engineers under Gene Stoner pretty much said that the M4 isn't a good platform, especially once the gas port erodes a bit. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. I too built a .458 SOCOM carbine . which is bad combo. instead of mil-spec. A feed ramp is a basic feature of many breech loading cartridge firearm designs. The leading cause that leads to the development of the M4 feed ramp is the gas pressure from the carbine gas system that is increasing along with a high cyclic rate. You can run M4 cut barrels with rifle receivers, but not the other way around as it will create at catch that can hang up the bullets. The A2's are pretty reliable guns, but trashed mags can cause them to have malfunctions also. Brevity matters. well.. it's kinda hard to get stuff in this part of the world. It was in the last few issues of SAR. Anything else you want to share about M4 clones would be appreciated, especially when it comes to a reliable rifle. I've modified barrel/receivers even before M4 cuts came out and done some receivers when the barrels had cuts. I should have taken my own advice for once. Dec 17, 2020. The mil actually only specs M4 feed ramps for use in its M4s. Paste as plain text instead, I have done the same, protect the Barrel extension with a layer of electrical tape and carefully file or Dremel the ramps into the aluminum receiver. All Rights Reserved. To measure just where the round makes impact on the feed ramps, I did not use any sort of micrometer to measure. M16's fed pretty well before the M4 feed ramps were introduced. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. You can modify the upper, but bear in mind that the un-anodized aluminum surface will be very soft and prone to wear if your particular bullet hits it frequently. Some suggest taking a grinder to the extension area. The M4 cut extends down beyond the edge of the barrel extension (has a scalloped appearance), and a correspondingly deeper cut in an M4-spec upper receiver effectively extends the ramps downward (theyre lowered). By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. so it is better to have an upper reciever that's designed for non-m4 feed ramps since you can put in standard barrels right? Polishing the edges of the chamber mouth to remove the edges of that chamfer will. They guide the bullet up and into the chamber. You wrote that much to make a point that should have taken about 100 words? A closer look at uppers and barrel extensions. M16s and M16-A1s run at 750 rounds per minute in full auto. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. BEFORE YOU GO MODIFYING IT, check your headspace.I have a Gibbz upper in my junk drawer because the upper -- for some reason -- wouldn't allow a perfectly good bolt (as checked by Criterion) to headspace correctly on a Criterion barrel, with the bolt installed in the carrier. Backing up a ton: Any and all AR-15 barrel extensions have feed ramps. I've seen uppers with and without anodizing on M4 ramps . it seems to me to be about 50/50 with and without. There are now thousands of upper receivers and ready-to-use barrels that have the cuts of M4 feed ramps. If your mag catch is at Spec height, you should not have a problem with an M4 cut barrel in a rifle receiver. Founded by Frank Galli in 2000, Snipers Hide has been offering informational videos, podcasts, and other support to its users in one location. If you aren't 110% comfortable with doing the job, and you do not have all the tools and equipment to do it properly, then have a smith do it for you. On AR9's, I understand the distance between the Mag Follower and the Feed Ramp is a known complication in the design. Full M4 feed ramps start on the upper and continue onto the barrel extension. M4 ramps help in feeding in for carbine in full auto. You must log in or register to reply here. For instance I was looking at the BCM upper receiver, and it said it had M4 feed ramps machined into the upper. While this gun is a more of novelty build than a "serious use" AR, I intend to use good parts and want it to run as well as my other ARs. I didnt think anything about it having M4 feed ramps. Rear side of a CZ-75B pistol barrel showing the (here dirty) feed ramp. All we do is dremmel it to match - we dont remove it and grind to any specific angle. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. Was sort of worried about how it would run with an 11.5" barrel and mismatched ramps, but it sounds like it should be good to go either way. For someone who is new at trying to understand feed ramps it helps to read a couple different explanations. If you have a m4 ramped upper but not barrel you can cause problems as there's a lip of steel barrel extension in the way that can cause feeding problems. I picked up a side charging upper from Sundevil last year. Create Account; Log Out ; Log In ; Wishlist 0; Shopping Cart 0; Home; About can you buy feed ramps individually? Full M4 feed ramps are on both the upper and barrel extension. 16" Pre-Ban M4 Profile Barrel Assembly CARBINE Gas System About Upper assembly comes completely head spaced and test fired. I have a non ramped barrel in a ramped upper, feeds fine. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - M4 feed ramp barrel in a non M4 ramp upper. -The Barrel MUST be removed from the Upper Receiver in order to use this Kit.-Never cut or polish the aluminum M4 Feed Ramps in your upper receiver! Ballistic Performance of Federal Punch .22 LR Ammunition with the Heritage Barkeep #1063. Installing a Luth-AR Rifle Buffer Tube and an A2 Stock #1041. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Product Description Surplus Colt 14.5" SOCOM, carbine length gas system barrel from Colt. The barrel blanks available are made from 416 Stainless Steel. No feed ramps. Full M4 feed ramps start on the upper and continue onto the barrel extension. and add them to non-m4 barrels.? Only took a few minutes. I think my question would be why rifle receiver+M4 barrel is just "ok" rather than "good", unless the point is that in a carbine-gas gun M4 ramps are just considered an improvement over no ramps. For the purposes of this chapter, we'll call the new one the M4, and the old one the AR. Interesting reading. Thread: Adding M4 feedramps to A1/C7 upper. My factory JP CTR-02 has the appearance of the bottom right picture in the post above, M4 barrel extension in a rifle receiver, and there is not a mark on the aluminum under the barrel extension. Any body need a anchor for a very small boat? When you need to nail something you use a hammer not a wrench. This can lead to a rare but odd situation; barrel and receiver mismatch. An upper without feed ramps can be used with a barrel that has them as the majority of the ramp is on the barrel extension. Looking for a black stripped A1 upper with non m4 feed ramps (just realized the upper I have wont work with my barrel). The upper is designed to have two levels of top rails for mounting of night vision in front of scopes. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt! For those who have actually done it will a new barrel with the M4 feed ramp extension function properly with an old school rifle-type upper receiver? Damaged Ak front end Barrel in Trunnion with or without sight bases. The tip of the cartridge rarely comes into contact with the upper receiver. Add 3% to the total cost for credit card purchases. Married pretty well with my Seekins machined lower. Seems counter intuitive to recommend an M4 cut upper, especially if the barrel Im looking at has the rifle feed ramp (not M4 cut). check out the. 50 bucks one way or the other on the barrel ain't squat! ago KrinkyDink2 9 hr. Can someone recommend or point me in the right direction of a good quality upper receiver for an SPR build that does not have M4 feed ramp cuts in it? Your link has been automatically embedded. Required fields are marked *. The M-16/M4 are great weapons. Gun smith said , not head spaced properly. This USGI modification was done to both the barrel extension and the upper receiver, creating a longer and steeper feed ramp. 410 stainless is also harder and more corrosion resistant than conventional 416 stainless found in other commercially available precision barrels. In short, if you have a Dremmel you can do it yourself. Semi autos run slower than full autos. Seems M4 is all the rage these days. The good idea is that the round, presented at a lower plane, will contact other lower feed ramps and go right on in. I don't have much to add re: feed ramps, but. In military situations, it is advantageous for rifles to function with damaged, worn, or less than ideally serviceable magazines. He had more to say and added some more engineer and gun designer speak too. Description Genuine 14.5" SOCOM, carbine length gas system barrel from Colt. "C" stamp and CAGE code available. Upper Receiver, A4, Flat Top, USGI, Numbered, AR-Stoner Upper Receiver Stripped AR-15 A3 Flat-Top Matte, Black River Tactical 16 Cold Hammer Forged Optimum Barrel Accuracy Evaluation. They are better! Then the manufacturer discontinued the barrel. We have four combinations here: Konza Defender M-LOK 5.56 16" Rifle 1x7 FEATURES: 16" 4150 Nitride 1x7 5.56 Barrel T-Marked Upper with M4 Feed Ramps Steel Micro Gas Block, and Carbine Length Gas Tube 15" 7075 T6 Aluminum Free Float M-LOK Hand Guard A2 Muzzle Break BCG is an M16 Style Nitride QPQ Finish Charging Handle Mil-Spec 6 Position Mil-Spec Diameter Stock We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. You need to match up barrels to receivers for optimum performance. Previous. They are also 1/7 twist, 4150 steel, chrome lined, and button rifled like the real deal! 1 is a standard and the other for use with m4 feed ramp barrels. M4 M-4 Feed Ramp Jam with 55 gr grain Bullets, Solution, Fix, AR15 AR-15 Stuck Cartridge iowaunemployment 21K views 10 years ago Comparing AR15 barrels -Faxon vs. Bear Creek arsenal-. Should not be too hard. Change the angle so that the ramp ends at the exact same point. America's Ultimate Shooting Sports Discounter, Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window). Its highly recommended to put any AR-platform firearm together with a matching M4 barrel extension and upper receiver set. I can probably get the upper reciever first. I recommend putting any AR-platform firearm together with a matched M4 barrel extension and upper receiver set, just because you can. And that the M4s and M4A1s are issued M855 which has a slight difference in bullet shape vs. the older 55gr M193 BALL. I think you will find that the tip of the bullet clears the M4 cuts in the upper receiver by a wide margin. Feedramps, proper staking of castle nuts, forward assist (yep went there)S-happens seen it. Come join the discussion about racing, builds, pro mods, hot rods, events, turbos, nitrous, superchargers, and more! Our 6mm ARC barrel come standard with 1-7.5 Twist, M4 Feed Ramps and gas tube. But, as with anything else, this work can go too far. All NFA rules apply. 338 and others not the .308 76251 or 6.5 creedmore which o think should have a.30cal feed ramp.? I suggest you get a rifle receiver. I read in Bravo company that there are 2 kinds of flat top upper. I guess it depends on what your relationship to the necessary shop activities is. M4 feed ramps will extend the barrel extension and the upper receiver. You have a rifle barrel. I am glad to know that I need to look for changes in design and the differences in the A2 and A4 feed ramp / rails. The barrel extension and the receiver both have to have the cuts. The trust part is accepting claims of USGI-spec parts actually being done to not only blueprint dimensions, but also made from the correct materials treated to the same processes. I put together a second AR9 that is having a feeding issue, even if using similar parts as the first one. Don't forget read more information about it here! We're a little past that point as I already own both the barrel and receiver, both of which cant easily be replaced or swapped for a decent price. Modern Series Barrels. There are now thousands of upper receivers and ready-to-use barrels that have the cuts of M4 feed ramps. Your email address will not be published. They offer a lower, more extensive, and smoother entry for any round of ammo, whether its necessary or not. I recently built an AR9 (Glock Mags) that has been running flawlessly for about 3-400rds. In general, all you need to understand is that the M4 feed ramps include the barrel extension and upper receiver. The M4 style feed ramps and barrel extension provide consistent feeding and the matte black Manganese Phosphate finish resists external corrosion and oxidation. BUT, I DO NOT TRUST MY LIFE TO THAT WEAPON. I've been thinking about doing sort of an "Early Diemaco C8 carbine" clone build with a C7 style upper receiver. Then you can get a regular rifle barrel for the upper with no ramps. This is why you can use a barrel with an extension with M4 feedramps with a receiver that does not have feedramps, but you cannot use a receiver with M4 feedramps with a barrel with an extension with rifle feedramps. They aid in feeding the round into the chamber from the magazine more easily, which make uppers and barrel extension matched. If you ever have an issue, then look at getting a correct barrel for the upper. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. FN AR15 barrels are hammer forged using the same proprietary high-grade Chrome Moly Vanadium steel used in FN's venerable machinegun barrels produced to handle the punishment of . When carrying out feed ramp polishing, it is crucial to prioritize the frame's angles, which is a critical part of the feed ramp. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. if you are OK with 3MOA, you might go 20,000 rounds! Is getting it as part of the upper better? I prefer them. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Powered by Invision Community. I cant advise on that one folks. All Rights Reserved. Add M4 cuts to Barrel Ext $15.00 We can modify your rifle extension to match the M4 cuts in an upper receiver. Share it in the comments section. I am having a tough time finding an in-stock barrel (18 or 20 incher) with a rifle extension on it. For this test, I used a Colt upper with M4 feed ramps and a SOCOM heavy 14.5 barrel, just like what is used in the military. Don't ever put non M4 ramped barrel on a M4 ramped upper receiver. If you want precision, dont look to the mil-spec gun, look to the one that is popular in 3-gun competitions, at Thunder Ranch, etc. Does it make a big difference? I think you will find that the tip of the bullet clears the M4 cuts in the upper receiver by a wide margin.