It has a heat value of from about 950 1050 Btu/cu ft. So, Mr. Einstein, tell me and the other responders before me here that apparently not know the difference? The above formula is for complete combustion. In the worst-case scenario, the exhaust from your furnace can lead to carbon monoxide poisoning. However, keep in mind that 1% is 10,000 times bigger than 1 ppm. I work for a gas utility and have never heard of combustion gases killing plants, in fact some greenhouses remove there venting in winter to help heat the spaces. 1. The 14-point pH scale of acidity runs from 0 at the far acidic end to 14 at the far alkaline, or basic, end, with pH 7 denoting a neutral solution. That excellent idea of yours should be considered by tent growers. Whether your heating fuel is natural gas (methane), LP gas (propane), No. Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LP-gas) is obtained from gas wells or as a refinery by-product and consists primarily of propane with traces of proplyene, butane and butylenes. Natural gas ( NG) consists of more than 85% methane with varying amounts of ethane, propane, butane and inert gases such as nitrogen, carbon dioxide and helium. Sultzbaugh points out that the current attractive pricing of natural gas from domestic sources encourages the use of gas-fired furnaces, but in some cases may give recuperation retrofits a longer payback. The newest high efficiency heaters have fresh air intake systems as part of the installation kit. A frequently asked question (FAQ) is "Can I use unvented heaters in the greenhouse, either for back-up or as a primary heat source? It's one thing to clear up a mistake, such as mine, but it's going overboard to start picking when someone is TRYING to help. Reference to commercial products or trade names does not imply endorsement by MSU Extension or bias against those not mentioned. A recuperator is a gas-to-gas heat exchanger that is installed on the furnace exhaust that preheats incoming combustion air. Its heat value is about 135,000 Btu/gal. Ethylene gas is another pollutant formed during combustion. The flame should burn clear blue. Greenhouse heating is essential to overwinter vegetables in all but the extreme southern latitudes of the U.S. Rather than just keeping plants alive, which can be done at any temperature above freezing, maintaining a temperature set point of 64F or above will help to produce a good yield of high-quality fruit from your greenhouse. Usually, if you smell gas, you should get alarmed. However, there are a few things that can potentially cause a carbon monoxide leak: Read: Why Furnace Is Making A Clicking Noise Troubleshooting Guide. This colorless and odorless gas is harmless when breathed in small amounts (thats what we do all the time), but in enclosed spaces, a high concentration of CO can become extremely dangerous. Note: My experience is in the UK where terminology differs from that used in the US. Increased moisture levels can cause increased incidence of disease problems including fungi, blight and molds. Dr. Rick Snyder has been a Professor and Extension Vegetable Specialist for 33 years at the Truck Crops Experiment Station, Mississippi State University, P.O. Does my high efficiency furnace need two sources of outside air. However, tighter greenhouses are more likely to allow buildup of toxic gases. You might want to talk to the installer to see if it could be better positioned as to not damage you plants. What is the difference between paper presentation and poster presentation? We recently learned that leaking gas lines can cause plants to die. You might want to talk to the installer to see if it could be better positioned as to not damage you plants. Tomato plants are very sensitive to certain pollutants found in the exhaust from fossil fuels. The installer is going to put the PVC pipes about two feet away from a cherry bush, actually midway between the bush and the A/C compressor. What goes with what? If I can revive it or plant new I'll either add a slight angle to the exhaust or wrap the holly in burlap to protect it and see how that works. all rights reserved. Why do academics stay as adjuncts for years rather than move around? Tankless Water Heater Exhaust Killing Plants By Andy Johnson | November 26, 2015 0 Comment [post_title] $1184.00 Description: Estrada cited a recent report from the federal electricity commission on plans to build new carbon plants, a tankless water heater, ruining their livelihoods and even killing residents. Hilarious thread. I don't think it's a bad idea at all. The main signs of a carbon monoxide leak include: The most common locations for a carbon monoxide leak within the HVAC system are the exhaust flue and within the heat exchanger. Is It Worth Getting A High Efficiency Furnace? Jim Roberts from Eclipse notes, Sometimes the cost looks staggering, but remember that most furnaces have a very active running schedule, so the paybacks, even at low gas costs, can be very fast. I'm concerned that the exhaust could harm the bush and also that the corrosive gas could tarnish the A/C. A heater that has been serviced in the fall will probably not be at peak efficiency as spring approaches. That excellent idea of yours should be considered by tent growers. The exhaust is mainly water vapor and carbon dioxide, but the absolute majority of furnaces also form a wide range of byproducts (particulate matter, nitrogen dioxide, sulfur dioxide, hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, etc. The type and quantity of impurities depends on where the fuel originated from. Never allow gases to remain inside the greenhouse. This is generally true if the burner is clean and has been adjusted to top efficiency. Our shrubs in the surrounding area are slowly dying off. Incomplete combustion reduces the amount of heat that is obtained and increases the amount of pollution. Even at todays attractive rates for natural gas as an industrial fuel, it makes complete sense to recover as much of the waste heat from the furnace as possible and use it for beneficial purposes. Russ Chapman from Firebridge notes that larger companies are starting to benchmark their large plants against each other, and against the competition, in terms of sustainability of the plants. Yes, furnace exhaust does contain carbon monoxide as it is created during the process of burning gas. A more likely problem is killing a treasured plant with exhaust gases. And even if screening is installed, it will corrode into rust flakes within a year or two. Also, call your furnace maintenance firm to inspect the unit in question. Please help me. How To Troubleshoot It? 5. In fact, 1 ppm (part per million) of ethylene or carbon monoxide can cause serious damage. These fuels are advertised as clean-burning. Make sure you leave a gap for maintaining the air conditioner unit, too. This colorless and odorless gas is harmless when breathed in small amounts (thats what we do all the time), but in enclosed spaces, a high concentration of CO can become extremely dangerous. WebSolved it by placing a cedar wood panel in front of the vent. As the heater operates, oxygen is used and combustion efficiency decreases unless makeup air is available. If you suspect a gas leak, try to get your utility company (gas, diesel) to come test your exhaust with an ethylene tester. I have a strong propane smell in furnace exhaust. They are usually placed in the habitable areas (dining rooms, bedrooms, hallways, etc.) It can be a very dangerous situation depending on the size of the leak We installed a high efficiency furnace several years ago and were told that the exhaust would not harm plants or bushes. You should inspect and clean the intake and exhaust pipes from time to time. Michigan State University Extension programs and materials are open to all without regard to race, color, national origin, gender, gender identity, religion, age, height, weight, disability, political beliefs, sexual orientation, marital status, family status or veteran status. You've requested a page on a website (cloudflarepreview.com) that is on the Cloudflare network. Any thoughts? Renee Miller began writing professionally in 2008, contributing to websites and the "Community Press" newspaper. They often can handle temperature changes and dry air better than smaller plants with thin leaves. However, if the smell is coming from the furnace exhaust pipe, then its completely normal. After the matrix is heated, the stream is mechanically directed to another section or vessel and incoming combustion air is drawn through the hot section and heated. You don't have to use all of the exhaust gas, but you could hook up a regulator or just turn on/off the valve that feeds the gas to the plants. During combustion sulfur in the fuel is combined with oxygen to form sulfur dioxide. We exhale Carbon Dioxide (CO2) .. just not in the concentrations required to help a grow room. WebUnvented heaters can be fired with natural gas, propane or kerosene. Portions of the evergreens have died but this year we totally lost the rhodadendron leaving the unsightly exhaust pipes exposed. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. Has anyone done this? Hasn't damaged the shrubbery, but I do need to keep the shrubs trimmed low enough that winter snow won't block the exhaust and intake. Especially, if there are gaps in the ductwork, through which unfiltered air can get sucked in. Symptoms range from shedding or shattering of flower petals, misshapen or malformed leaves and flowers, thickened stems, leaf yellowing or chlorosis, stunted plant growth, flower bud and leaf abortion to epinasty or twisting. There are several rules a grower needs to follow to be certain the heating system is beneficial to the bottom line. WebFurnace exhaust is killing bushes. By using this website, you agree to our use of cookies. An early symptom of CO poisoning is headaches, but can be accompanied by dizziness, weakness, upset stomach, vomiting, chest pain and confusion as poisoning becomes more extreme. That excellent idea of yours should be considered by tent growers. The pipes are usually black or white and they exit the wall right next to your furnace. Sorrymy dumbness I guess. I'm concerned that the exhaust could harm the bush and also that the corrosive gas could tarnish the A/C. Be sure your recuperator design takes into account the specific characteristics of your furnace operation. I kind of thought it would be a bad idea but I'm glad i checked twice. I do not smell it in the house, and can only smell it when the furnace is running and I am outside. If you dump it outside, it will kill plants, grass anything that it comes in contact with." Read: Is It Worth Getting A High Efficiency Furnace? Can I move this outside vent to the roof vent? The 14-point pH scale of acidity runs from 0 at the far acidic end to 14 at the far alkaline, or basic, end, with pH 7 denoting a neutral solution. We have ferns and hostas growing happily in front of it now. MSU is an affirmative-action, equal-opportunity employer. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Another scenario is that he may not have tested a heater since last winter and will find that it doesnt work. Each winter there are several instances of tight greenhouses that have frozen up when the heaters were starved for air and the heat output decreased. Although less commonly used than recuperators, regenerators are still widely used in high temperature furnaces such as glass and steel reheat furnaces. See all author stories here. Dumping these flue gases into the greenhouse may improve the overall efficiency rating as compared to a conventional heater but the pollutants and added moisture from combustion may put your plants in jeopardy. WebUnvented heaters can be fired with natural gas, propane or kerosene. 2 diesel oil, wood, or some alternative fuel type, the same rules apply. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. The gas is then directed through the flue pipe and safely vented out of your house. WebDuring very cold and windy weather the screening collects ice, blocking the vent and causing a furnace shutdown. Natural gas underground will kill grasses and plants. However, plants that bloom once like lilies, tulips and hyacinths will likely not bloom if they have been exposed to ethylene when they were in the flower bud stage. The other set of wires I have red, white, blue, yellow, and black. You might want to talk to the installer to see if it could be better positioned as to not damage you plants. Esperanza grows in USDA zones 8 through 11 and originates in the hot, dry deserts and forests of northern Mexico. Peace. Levels as low as 0.01 ppm can create symptoms such as malformed leaves and flowers, stunted growth, bud abcission, epinasty and flower senescence. lost in a matter of hours. Linear Algebra - Linear transformation question, Batch split images vertically in half, sequentially numbering the output files. 3 Answers Sorted by: 1 No, it sounds like you have a high efficiency furnace and these will direct vent outside versus using the chimney stack to vent. High Efficiency Furnace exhaust and plants. If you suspect a leaky fuel line, try painting soapy water on the joints and seams and look for bubbling. WebOne is that if a condensate drain is draining water from a high-efficiency furnace, this water can be acidic and damage plants. The carbon monoxide in the furnace is mostly contained within the walls of the units heat exchanger. You would have to regularly check your unit to ensure that these components are not damaged. OP was discussing CO, not CO2. Our shrubs in the surrounding area are slowly dying off. These chemicals can damage plants. This site shows youhow to create a beautiful DIY terrarium. Remember, ethylene is an odorless, colorless gas that is a harmful pollutant to your greenhouse crops. High Efficiency Furnace exhaust and plants. A great indicator plant to use for the presence of ethylene is a tomato plant. Older type technology using relay logic is not readily adaptable. Even though lower humidity levels may not be best for houseplants, its essential for your health and comfort and helps protect your home from mold, sickness, and damage. Get up-to-date current news, promotions and industry tips. Cold air blowing directly on plants often strips it of its moisture. It used to be vented up to my roof and out. This will likely cause one greenhouse to pull in contaminated exhaust from the other. Check for leaks by placing a smoke bomb or furnace candle within the firebox. And Why? Two types of heat recovery systems that are commonly used with industrial furnaces are recuperators and regenerators. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Floriculture and vegetable crops grown in greenhouses that utilize natural gas or propane fueled heaters can be susceptible to ethylene injury according to MSU Extension. Yellow or orange flames represent impurities or a wrong setting. The only thing I would do is rout your dryer vent into the room during the winter. Firebridge, Inc is a combustion engineering firm headquartered in Burlington, Ontario with wide experience in industrial furnace engineering. Tomato plants are very sensitive to certain pollutants found in the exhaust from fossil fuels. Check out the MSU Agricultural Operations Program! Tom Dudek, Michigan State University Extension, and Randy Beaudry, MSU Department of Horticulture - All fuels contain traces of sulfur, some more than others depending on its source. Ok so that was a bad idea the only reason i thought of this was back a few years ago i had a grow and i was bringing cool air from the cross pace basement to cool my room and at that time the furnace was also in the basement crosspace. Ethylene damage seems to be most common on new heaters not installed properly, and on heaters more than six to eight years old. Just make sure when you go in there, you may be breathing it to. Try this checklist for proper maintenance. Tankless Water Heater Exhaust Killing Plants By Andy Johnson | November 26, 2015 0 Comment [post_title] $1184.00 Description: Estrada cited a recent report from the federal electricity commission on plans to build new carbon plants, a tankless water heater, ruining their livelihoods and even killing residents. The exhaust system typically uses metal venting, often routed into a chimney stack, to exhaust the combustion gases created in the furnace fire chamber. Yes, a heating system that is not properly maintained can make you feel sick. If you are looking to get houseplants, considerhardier plants that have bigger, broader leaves. You can size the air intake for the heating unit with a simple formula: use 50 square inches of intake for each 100,000 BTUs of the heating system. Justcontact usand well offer professional advice on the matter. Tomato plants are very sensitive to certain pollutants found in the exhaust from fossil fuels. Lastly, research your plants temperature and humidity needs. Why Furnace Blower Motor Is Making Noise When Starting? Care should taken if you install unvented heaters. Cloudflare is currently unable to resolve your requested domain. VisitTennessee. We installed a high efficiency furnace several years ago and were told that the exhaust would not harm plants or bushes. Any thoughts? Tomato plants are very sensitive to certain pollutants found in the exhaust from fossil fuels. If it is yellow or orange it needs adjustment. Our shrubs in the surrounding area are slowly dying off. In any event, the use of unvented space heaters is too risky for the commercial greenhouse grower. However the plant is on its third plant manager in three years, and no action is taking place in making improvements. Spending too much time in a hot space with low humidity can lead to cracking skin, dry nose and eyes, and so on. Share Improve this answer Follow answered Jun 5, 2014 at 14:18 Steven 27.3k 9 51 86 3 1 cu ft NG + 10 cu ft Air + Flame gives 8 cu ft Nitrogen + 1 cu ft Carbon dioxide + 2 cu ft Water vapor. A heater that has been serviced in the fall will probably not be at peak efficiency as spring approaches. WebGrasses and perennials that grow more than 6 inches high should also be planted at least 2 to 3 feet away from the base of the unit because ventilation for the unit is also drawn from that area. ); carbon monoxide is especially dangerous as this invisible, odorless gas can lead to poisoning. Cornell University.Resources added 2016 by T. Smith, UMass Extension. You are inAlabama. 1. I would like to update it to "Thermoplastic Pipe" because it require a 0 clearance to combustion material. The dosage effect of ethylene on impatiens. Sultzbaugh adds, We also need to look at the air-fuel ratio, which will require adjustment., Asked whether existing burner controls can be adapted to the addition of recuperation, Sultzbaugh explains, It depends on the type of control method being used. Mine haven't complained yet. Maybe there is something else going on that could be coincidental. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. VisitTennessee. For more information, visit https://extension.msu.edu. So be sure the utility company is prepared with proper equipment to help you. It both protects the plants from the blast and collects any lint and keeps it from view. Our shrubs in the surrounding area are slowly dying off. A heater that has been serviced in the fall will probably not be at peak efficiency as spring approaches. Natural gas-fired process furnaces are widely used in industry, particularly in applications involving metallurgy, heat-treating, glass and ceramics. However, he also points out that for operators with site emission permits written on a lb/MMBtu basis, recuperation allows the use of more furnace capacity, hence increased productivity. Are you insane? Esperanza (Tecoma stans) is a flowering shrub that works well for larger yards. How far away from the vent pipe are the shrubs dying? Thanks for sharing! Yes, furnace exhaust does contain carbon monoxide as it is created during the process of burning gas. WebSolved it by placing a cedar wood panel in front of the vent. Other common venting questions: If we take a 30' x 100' double poly greenhouse and maintain inside temperature at 60 F on a 0 F night for a 12 hour period, heating with unvented propane or kerosene heaters would add about 22 gallons of moisture to the air and heating with natural gas would add about 16 gallons.